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Editor’s Note: This is a follow up interview with Rev. David Runnion-Bareford on how historic churches can, with God’s help, be renewed to vital mission and ministry. Pastor David is the Executive Director of Biblical Witness Fellowship, a church consultant, and a member of ReformationUCC’s Board of Reference. To read article that prompted this interview, please visit here…

ReformationUCC: Can you tell us more about the church that’s feeding 100 hungry people daily? How old was the church before this ministry started? How big is the church and the city where it’s located?

David Runnion-Bareford: This is actually a church with over 125 years of history as one of those family named “memorial” churches, which about 10 years ago renamed itself and experienced a ‘resurrection’ style renewal. It’s located just outside of Portsmouth, NH. and has a congregation of about 150 on Sunday morning.

ReformationUCC: So obviously well established – some might be tempted to say “old and dead” churches can change! The best news from your article is that you don’t have to be a huge church to do this and you don’t have to imitate a program from a mega church somewhere. Should small churches stop worrying about what other people are doing and find their own “signature” ministry?

David Runnion-Bareford: Yes, within any particular church’s call and history are keys to reaching the people within their sphere of influence with life in Jesus Christ. Vision New England, in fact, has launched its Vision One ministry to create culture change for evangelism one church at a time in New England on the premise that no “cookie cutter” pre-packaged programs from other, usually larger churches are going to work. Some things like the purpose driven initiatives have enjoyed wide application and success. They are now actually being implemented in Africa. But churches that want to see the Holy Spirit work through them with power, need to look carefully, pray strategically, and listen intently. Each church has its own unreached people group and the means to reach them.

Several years ago I worked with a church in the midwest which was one of those German Reformed fortresses in the heart of the city. The formidable aspect of the building was compounded by the fact that the front doors were in need of repair and the only access (for the knowing) was a side entrance. A congregation of 40, mostly commuters worshiped in a magnificent sanctuary that once saw 1500 on a Sunday. The building which had once included a school had been constructed for immigrant families to provide a sanctuary for their children from the “wicked ways” of the non-German population around them. As we met to pray and strategize, I heard noise in the building and upon investigation found nearly 100, mostly hispanic youth playing basketball in the gymnasium under the auspices of Youth for Christ. “Yes”, the church members explained, “we let them use the building”. It was amazing – God had opened a door into a new immigrant population in need of a sanctuary while they were pondering what to do next.

ReformationUCC: In your experience as a church consultant, how many viable “signature” ministries can a church have?

David Runnion-Bareford: If you think of a congregation of say 60 folks as a mission organization with 60 missionary personnel, plus a lot of assets – probably 30 or more private homes, 60 or so automobiles, trucks, etc. and say $1,500,000 in combined annual income, how much ministry can they accomplish? Probably a small church wants to start by doing one thing really well – youth service outreach, weekday children’s program, seniors ministry citywide, shepherding homes for pregnant girls, public school involvement and support, sports teams outreach – whatever the Lord presents as an obvious calling. Then from the single focus other opportunities will evolve. Working with pregnant girls in the city, opened the door to relationships with newer Brazilian, Haitian and African churches, which led in turn to our becoming the sponsoring agency for the city Haitian Community Center, which led to “Project Redeem” which brings Haitian High School Leadership kids from Haiti to study in our Christian High School.

ReformationUCC:When a church has viable ministry going on like the ones you described, don’t we see that people come to Jesus and to church even if we don’t have the “latest, greatest” music and all the bells and whistles the megachurches told us we needed to be relevant?

David Runnion-Bareford: Bringing people to Jesus mean bringing them into an authentic community of Christians. It is our authenticity that is incarnational, not our furniture and programs. This is a problem for most of us because we are sloppy and undisciplined Christians who come together either from a sense of duty or to get something out of it. Sunday morning is problematic not because we don’t have a great worship team or powerpoint, but because we aren’t authentic. Being the real thing is the place to start even if there are only 25 of us.

ReformationUCC: Do too many churches miss out on renewal because they’re waiting for the wrong thing to happen first?

David Runnion-Bareford: Yes!! Focusing on the conflict and the obstacles will never work. Suppose to use the example of our ministry that began with support of the pregnancy center, we had instead tried to start out becoming a “multi-racial” church in a semi-rural homogenous community? Jesus engaged the synagogue and the temple, but moved among the people, making disciples wherever the Holy Spirit directed. He was not hindered by the corrupt state of the Jewish religious leadership. When he left, a dozen minus one plus a few others, without merit of seminary education, or prior leadership experience beyond a couple short term missions, turned the world upside down. We believe that 7 people praying regularly for 7 years is the key to powerful renewal. One of the keys is unifying whatever small group you have in one ministry and doing it well. Obedience and intercession will take care of your pastor, or church leadership, or the organist or the denomination or whatever that big bad thing is you think is holding God back. Increasingly I am becoming convinced that God’s move in this next chapter will come from lay persons with a passion for Jesus Christ who will renew churches with secondary pastoral input.

Click here to read Part 3 of this series.